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The pursuing is simply a transcript of an interrogation with H.W. Brands, Jack S. Blanton Sr. Chair successful History astatine the University of Texas astatine Austin and writer of "America First: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh successful the Shadow of War," connected "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" that aired connected Dec. 1, 2024.
MAJOR GARRETT: Welcome back. We crook present to writer and historiographer H.W. Brands. He is the Jack S. Blanton Sr. Chair astatine the University of Texas astatine Austin, and his latest publication is "America First: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh successful the Shadow of War." He joins america this greeting from Austin, Texas. H.W., it's large to spot you. First of all, what does this "America First" clash past archer us, if anything, astir contiguous and references to "America first"?
H.W. BRANDS: The statement that I picture successful the publication is whether the United States should participate World War II betwixt the clip Germany started the warfare successful September of 1939 and the United States entered the warfare successful December of 1941. That was the constrictive absorption of the debate. The larger question, and the 1 that persists today, is, what bash Americans deliberation their country's relation successful the satellite ought to be? Should the United States, indispensable the United States, instrumentality a starring relation successful the world? Should the United States interest itself successful conflicts among different nations that possibly don't straight code American interests? This- this was the question then, it's a question we're dealing with again today.
MAJOR GARRETT: If you could, sketch retired concisely Charles Lindbergh's stature astatine the clip this statement with Franklin Delano Roosevelt was engaged.
BRANDS: Lindbergh came to the attraction of the American public, indeed, to the satellite public, successful 1927 erstwhile helium flew a solo formation for the archetypal clip crossed the Atlantic Ocean. He became this nationalist hero. He became a satellite personage for accomplishing this large method feat, but it was besides a feat of idiosyncratic daring. He was a darling of the United States, a darling successful different countries. He was decorated by overseas governments. He became an aboriginal personage successful an property erstwhile personage was archetypal starting to instrumentality form. So that was his presumption arsenic of 1927. His personage took a antithetic crook successful the aboriginal 1930s erstwhile his and his wife's babe lad was kidnapped and murdered successful what past was called the "crime of the century," which gave raise- which gave emergence to the "trial of the century." And truthful this aureate boy, each of a sudden, had a acheronian shadiness formed crossed his life. And truthful helium was, successful immoderate ways, this prima crossed hero, astatine that point. He continued to beryllium influential successful aeronautical engineering circles. He knew a batch astir aircraft, but successful the American mind, helium was this- helium was this large celebrity. And galore radical were surprised, actually, that helium did instrumentality a starring relation successful the statement implicit American policy, due to the fact that helium was not a governmental figure. He eschewed politics.
MAJOR GARRETT: And successful that statement with Roosevelt, did Roosevelt and his medication respect Charles Lindbergh arsenic a imaginable governmental threat? And if so, however did they woody with him?
BRANDS: It's a small spot hard to say. Franklin Roosevelt, astatine immoderate point, decided that helium wanted to tally for a 3rd term. This broke a agelong lasting informal regularisation of American politics. And helium knew that Republicans were perpetually going up to Charles Lindbergh and saying, you could beryllium president, you'd beryllium a large candidate. Lindbergh's begetter had been a congressman, but Lindbergh took from his father's experience, which- which turned retired severely due to the fact that of his absorption to American argumentation during World War I, that helium didn't privation to person thing to bash with authorities oregon politicians. He considered politicians a clump of liars, radical who could not beryllium trusted, and helium considered authorities this debased and benignant of mean concern that helium wanted to person thing to bash with.
MAJOR GARRETT: When this statement began successful 1931, Lindbergh was successful 1 place. When it ended successful 1941, helium was successful a antithetic spot successful the nationalist mind. Some accused him of being a Nazi sympathizer. Some editorialists described him arsenic an antisemite. Where bash you travel down?
BRANDS: The 1 happening I should accidental is that everybody who called him an antisemite oregon a Nazi sympathizer had governmental reasons for doing so, due to the fact that Lindbergh became the look of absorption to American involution successful the war. And it served his opponents' purposes to overgarment him successful this antagonistic category. In presumption of his Nazi sympathy, he- determination were American Nazis. There was an American Nazi Party. They were intelligibly Nazi sympathizers. Lindbergh was not a subordinate of the party. In fact, the America First Committee, of which Lindbergh was a part, took pains to support its region from those. Lindbergh did not privation Germany to triumph the war. His presumption was that the United States should not spot its frontier of information successful the mediate of Europe,the mode Franklin Roosevelt and the interventions appeared to beryllium doing. But due to the fact that helium took that position, and it was a presumption that the Germans supported, the Germans didn't privation the United States to participate the war. There was this nonsubjective consciousness successful which 1 could accidental that erstwhile Lindbergh gave a speech, it served the purposes of the German government.
MAJOR GARRETT: How astir his appraisal of American Jews wanting to propulsion America into the warfare and past exercising outsized power culturally successful our country?
BRANDS: So, the charges of antisemitism against Lindbergh truly are associated with a azygous code helium gave successful the autumn of 1941, successful which helium identified 3 groups that, successful his opinion, were astir influential successful pushing the United States toward war. One was the British government. Britain was already astatine war, and helium explained it was earthy that they would effort to get the United States progressive successful the war. The 2nd group, helium said, was American Jews, and helium said it's perfectly understandable that they should privation the United States to get into the war, fixed what Hitler and the Nazis person done to their relatives, friends, co-religionists successful Europe. And the 3rd radical was the Roosevelt administration. He was astir captious of the Roosevelt medication due to the fact that Lindbergh claimed that Roosevelt was utilizing the excuse of the warfare to further his ain governmental ambitions. Now, simply for mentioning American Jews successful the discourse of warfare policy, the entity fell down upon Lindbergh. Everybody who wanted to marque definite that they weren't accused of antisemitism, everybody who opposed Lindbergh's policy, came down and pointed the digit of antisemitism astatine Lindbergh. To what grade was Lindbergh really an antisemite? Well, I would say- I would- I enactment him successful the class of the benignant of, not successful my state club, benignant of antisemite, which was highly communal successful the United States astatine the time.
MAJOR GARRETT: Very quickly, H.W., there's a clash implicit accusation and disinformation, some sides pass each different and the American nationalist astir that. Unspool that for us, if you could, existent quick.
BRANDS: The British authorities and the German government, the 2 antagonists that were astatine that point, were some engaged successful propaganda campaigns successful the United States. And truthful erstwhile the British authorities would works editorials, features, successful American newspapers, often chartless to the speechmaking public, past Lindbergh and his broadside would say, well, look what the British authorities is doing. When the German authorities would bash thing similar, past the Roosevelt medication would say, look astatine what the German authorities is doing. So each broadside then, the governments of the 2 sides, they were doing their champion to sway American nationalist opinion, due to the fact that they realized that, successful the end, it was American nationalist sentiment that had to beryllium persuaded.
MAJOR GARRETT: Foreign interference successful American nationalist opinion, past and now. H.W. Brands, it's been a pleasure. Thank you truthful much. And we'll beryllium close back
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